2022 Best Bits (Part 2)

In this podcast episode, you'll hear some more best bits from the STEM Untapped podcast in 2022. In particular we focus on what it has been like for our role models as women in STEM, and the great advice that they give our interviewers. 

If you know a group of students who would like to interview female or non-binary role models, please get in touch by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Likewise, if you know anyone who would be a great role model, let us know by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Follow us on Instagram @STEMUntapped
Check out our website

If you know a group of students who would like to interview one of our role models, please get in touch by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Likewise, if you know anyone who would be a great role model, let us know by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Follow us on Instagram @STEMUntapped
Connect with us on LinkedIn @STEMUntappedCIC
Check out our website

Transcript

Intro 00:02

Hi, I'm Izzy, host of the STEM Untapped podcast. This week's episode has more best bits from the last year. Coming up, you'll hear about our role models’ experiences of being women in STEM, and some great pieces of advice.

Student Interviewers 00:18

Would you say that being a woman yourself has impacted your career in any way?

Yesim Kunter 00:24

I actually never thought about that that much, but I'm sure it does. It gives some of the power in some way. You try to be much more understanding, you know, you do use your empathy and some kind of more softness of understanding different things. I think that kind of gives you that power in a way. But I have to admit, I never thought about what I'm doing from the perspective of, I'm doing it as a woman, you know what I mean? If I was a woman, or a man or any of any, any other identity doesn't matter, I would do it anyway. But I think sometimes there are some struggles that might come with it, which is, you know, the expectations of people, especially from Turkey. So you know, you would expect you to get married, have children and, you know, pursue to I mean, you can still pursue on your career, but there are things that is not expected as much. And that's it's kind of sometimes a struggle, I would say. But that doesn't mean that. I think it's a very different concept. But yes, in the world, there are so many expectations, which makes it a bit harder sometimes. But I think you just have to stick with what you love.

Aminat Amoo 01:32

Yeah, yeah, I think sometimes there can be a feeling of imposter syndrome when you're a minority in a room. So even when I was doing chemistry, loads of men or boys end up doing a STEM degree, so physics, chemistry, they tend to be quite male dominated fields. So you, you do sometimes end up being in the minority. And when you don't see people like you, you sometimes start to question like, should I be here? So I think I definitely had some impostor syndrome. But then again, having role models around and seeing people that were like me, and seeing that they were succeeding was like a big push me to say, well, I can 100% do this. And no, no consensus, or no prejudice is gonna stop me from doing it. If anything, it started to push me and become a motivator. So like, if I was going to be discounted, because of my sex, or my race, or the background I came from, because I was working class, if I was going to be discounted for those things, it gave me a drive to be like, Well, I'm ready to prove you wrong. And, and so that's like, again, I like to flip things. So even though internally, sometimes I had a bit of imposter syndrome, I wanted to flip it and see as an, again, an opportunity to prove that I am good at what I do. And I deserve to be here, the only thing I would say is don't shoulder the representation on yourselves. Don't take that on, like you don't represent every woman, I'm not going to represent every black woman that you've ever met, we are all very unique. We're not a monolith. So I, I also had to keep that in mind. Like I am my own person, I can't represent every black woman there is on this earth. And it's not fair for that responsibility to be pushed on to me.

Dr Louise Martin 03:15

I think if I was doing medicine 10 years before I did, yes. But I mean, there were more girls in my year, and there were boys, and there are more… I've come across more female doctors than male. When I was first starting out, there was quite the older consultants who are probably in their 60s or 70s. They were quite oh, gosh, look at all these female doctors coming through, you know, times are changing, things like that. But now, I'd say that females are the majority of the workforce. And I don't think it's been any harder for me being girl at work, but I definitely think that has changed recently for the positive.

Dr Megan Sumeracki 03:58

I did notice it more once I got closer to finishing my PhD, I started to notice that some of the men in the lab, the graduate students who are men were treated a little bit differently. And their attitude was a little bit different. And sometimes, you know, a female graduate student might say something and our principal investigator would say, I don't know. And then one of the male graduate students would say, basically the exact same thing two minutes later, and it was a brilliant idea. I'm sure it wasn't purposeful. And maybe it wasn't because of a female versus a male. Maybe it was just one student versus the other student. But it did start to seem a little… the pattern kind of holds a little bit. But I never felt like it was going to prevent me from getting to where I wanted to get to, it just seemed like maybe it was going to be a little bit more challenging, but also many, many young girls who then turn into women are used to things being a little bit more difficult, and really can kind of kind of push through that.

Kirsty McCabe 05:13

The sad reality is that we as women are still judged an awful lot of what we look like and what we're wearing more than what we're saying. And we don't always get paid the same as men. So I think things are changing. And hopefully, they'll change even more so by the time you guys are finished school, but it is still a battle to be recognised for your ability to do the job, and not what you look like doing the job. I think that will change. It has to change, but it's taking time. So it's a little bit harder being a women in the [meteorological] industry. And I certainly find that when I was pregnant with my children, you get judged a lot on that as well. You know, people don't have the right to comment on you, and things like that. But they do. And that's when I don't go on social media that much these days. Because I think that's where you get a lot of people will see things on Twitter that they wouldn't ever say to somebody if they met you face to face. So I think you have to separate what's real, and that's your friends and family, and then what's not real, and that's people that you don't know, saying things online.

Isabel Rogers 06:11

I think definitely within my career, I have noticed, like starting in television, I have noticed there being a difference in opportunities for gender. It’s not massive, and it's definitely getting a lot better. And the majority of it's just the slightly more physical or technical aspects of some jobs that people don't assume that you can't do as a woman. But there's much more of a higher presumption that a man at a similar level will perhaps be more inclined to do that or have a natural affinity to do that. People are very happy to be proved wrong. It's almost like an innate thing that is just a cultural learning, as opposed to someone discriminating actively against women. So I think that almost requires a little bit more self-confidence as a woman, put yourself out there and say, No, I can do that. And I'll show you, as opposed to maybe a male in the same position might not need such self-confidence.

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 07:19

I’m the only person who wanted to do computer science at school, which I think is crazy, given what everyone else is doing, you know, everyone else's, they're all engineers and doctors and things. So they're still in the field, when it came to computer science. In at school, I was the only one who really went and did the degree in computer science in both secondary school and sixth one, and then go into my course and being the only black girl on the course. And there's only one other black person and there were like 270 of us in total, you know, it grates on you. People's attitudes also get to you a lot faster when there isn't a group and there isn't that protective group of people to talk to. And I'm now going into a PhD, and it's the same thing. You know, I'm one of the first black women to get onto the PhD, which is something I didn't know. And I didn't expect, you know, and it's just like, When am I not gonna be the only one? When are you guys gonna come and join me? But it doesn't mean that I will trade it for anything, I think times will change, people will change. And there are good people everywhere. And that's a big lesson I've learned in recent years. So it's just about finding them and being patient. But you should never let something like that discourage you from doing anything.

Sharon Strugnell 08:34

I never really saw it as being a blocker. I never saw it as me being a female in that industry. I just saw it as me being an engineer. That's what I wanted to do. So that's what I went off and did. And I think I do appreciate the fact that maybe engineering doesn't have the representation from on a female to male split, it probably should have. But you know, I've always been treated very much the same as anybody else. In my team, I lead a team of engineers that are all male, there is no different no other females in my team. So I can definitely see the fact that there is there's not as many females as males in our industry. But it's never stopped me being able to progress in my career. It's never stopped me on being able to progress on projects. I've been very, very fortunate, I think, not say that's the case for everybody, but definitely in my industry. I've never found it a problem.

Dr Megan Kenny 09:26

No one's ever directly as part of my job ever targeted me because of my gender but I do see inequality, even in my department and my institution. I think there's also a big class issue in higher education that I have witnessed and been on the receiving end of some sort of classism and classist remarks. So I would say although I'm aware of inequality towards about gender inequality, and I'm sure I'm on the receiving end of it insidiously in terms of career progression. I've never noticed it directly, but I have definitely noticed classism towards me. That's what I can say I've experienced more directly.

Student Interviewers 10:12

What three things would you wish for girls in STEM today? And why?

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 10:16

Oh, okay, so I have two like retrospective ones and one forward thinking one. The two retrospective… one is that young black girls really have a great list of role models and exposure to STEM. The other retrospective one is that teachers are hyper aware of the effect that can have on young girls and then their trajectory, I think a lot of people have had a teacher say something to them, or have even subconsciously received different feedback from teachers of different subjects and gone down a different path. That would be my other one. And then forward thinking is the next decade, I don't want it to be 2030 and we’re still doing girls in STEM. Like it should be normal by then. I don't want to have to do this in another 10 years. Whatever it is that you want to do, if you're listening to this, this is your sign that you can do it. And you should just go for it doesn't matter which circumstance you're in or who you're around, or who you're not around, if you want to do it, I personally believe in you. And I think you can do it.

Dr Megan Kenny 11:25

I think that people should really trust their gut and follow what their dreams are, whatever they are, even if that's in opposition to what people expect of you, or what people think you should do. And I think that the lesson that I learned from that is that you have to make time for free time. So I have more free time now because I make time for it. And that's something that I always advise my students to do as well when I'm talking to them.

Dr Elisa Smit 11:47

If you really want something, keep that goal in mind and just don't give up. Or you might have a week where you really struggle. So talk to other people see if you can find someone who can help you.

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 11:59

I would say it's very important to whatever you choose to do, whether it's University, or whether it's college or, or not, or any like, if you're going straight to a job, just make sure you enjoy what you're doing. Because that is the, that's the key thing. You don't necessarily need to be good at it. Because you can learn, you can always learn things, the fundamental thing is you have to enjoy it. Because then you'll be willing to learn you'll be willing to put that time in.

Dr Megan Sumeracki 12:28

You know, sometimes I look back and I think oh, I wish I'd done this, or I wish I hadn't done that. But it always sort of then boils down to exactly how everything turned out, brought me to the job that I have and brought me to my husband. So, who I didn't meet until I was a little older. I was 27. And I had finished my PhD and we didn't get married until I was 30. But our lives together is really great. And so, you know, I wish sometimes wish that I had known to study differently in high school, and maybe I could have gone to an even better university. But then I probably wouldn't have worked in, I wouldn't have worked in the same research lab, which means I wouldn't have gone to the same graduate school, which means I wouldn't have gotten my job at Utah State which is where I met my husband. So it's hard to say that I have regrets. There's certainly things that I probably could have done better. But I enjoy where my where my life is now and I enjoy my job at Rhode Island College and I love my husband and we have a nice house. And so it's hard to say that I have regrets. I know that that's probably difficult to think about so far ahead when you're when you're in your teenage years and in high school, but looking back, I really wouldn't change it. Because it would have changed the whole path.

Kirsty McCabe 13:49

You have to enjoy it. I think if you have a passion and whether that's for meteorology or anything, if you have a passion for something, then that will show and you will do your job well, and people will want you to do the job and progress you through that career. So you have to find something you're passionate about. But I also think you have to have a plan B, and that your career that you think you might have might not work out, you might turn out that you try it and you do it. But actually you hate television, it's nerve racking, and you're not enjoying it. So you need to think well, what else could I do instead?

Isabel Rogers 14:18

I think not being afraid to talk to people is something that I think that held me back at the beginning, having a shyness and not being able to effectively have confidence in myself to say that I can do something that's really hard one, to change in yourself, if you are somebody who lacks confidence, but it's talking to your teachers about it as well, or people around you who you might be inspired by even it was slightly different career. Talking them through sort of your ideas sometimes just helps you boost your confidence as what you can do. Because you normally can do so much more than you think you can. Yeah, really think like, doing your bits of your own homework, and trying to make your own films, even just, you can basically make films on the smartphone. And what that shows is innovation, like motivation, and the ability just to get on and do something with what you have at your disposal. 

Student Interviewers 15:23

What would you say to your teenage self, or just teenagers now that you're a psychotherapist?

Charlotte Pitt  15:29

That’s a really good question. That it's okay not to know, and that you can't know, everything. And if you think you know, then you've got something wrong, because you can't know everything. And it's alright not to. You know, as a teenager, I thought I needed to know I needed to have clarity, I needed to be decisive. And actually, as I was saying earlier I arrived at a career that I'm passionate about, and I very much enjoy. And I arrived at it later on in life. Because I was just able to, to kind of follow my feeling or follow my gut rather than having to get it right, having to get the grades having to perform, having to be successful, have a lot of money in my bank account, you know. So I think it's, I would have said to myself, don't worry, if you don't know, it's okay not to know, doesn't mean you shouldn't work hard and be ambitious. But that you can't always know. 

Yesim Kunter 16:33

I would say just focus on your mission. And do not compare yourself with the others. I'm going to give you an example. When you're rowing, I don't know if you’ve ever rowed, but when you're rowing, you shouldn't be looking at the other boat, because then you're going to lose your focus. And then it's going to be like a complete mess. So it's so much better to keep yourself almost focus on your own mission. And in between, I would say, do something, have fun, like even five minutes, something really fun, give yourself that kind of flexibility. Try to laugh a lot so that you are actually not too much breaking yourself. Because I know it's mentally it's very hard. But I think and you should trust yourself. And also, you know, life is so changeable. It's transitioning all the time. So you should like when you focus on only one thing and you think that's, that's the whole life. It's so easy to break. So just know that this is one step.

Student Interviewers 17:39

What advice would you have given to your 16 year old self while you were trying to pursue this career?

Yesim Kunter 17:44

My 16 year old self was much more wiser than me right now. She was writing letters to myself. Now actually, I must have some of the unopened letters I was writing to my future self. I was writing millions of letters to everything that while I should be and how I should be doing everything, so she was really like a very wise person. I might, I might maybe say to her, don't beat up yourself too much. That's what I would say because you compare yourself with other people. So the reason is that I had ADHD and I wasn't diagnosed at that time. So I was doing a lot of mistakes. And I wasn't sure that I can actually. I mean, actually also there were other things like some people did tell me that I didn't have any science scientific mind, that I wouldn't be able to do it. So what I would say for that girl is like Do not listen to anyone even though if they are very, very, very close to you. And it's sometimes they're also adults, but they're also trying to grow up. So sometimes they might make a mistake as well. So just follow your heart really, I would that's what I would say. And actually she did follow her heart. So, for that reason I’m graceful with my 16 year old.

Outro 19:07

Thank you for joining another STEM Untapped podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, then subscribe for free on your podcast app. You can follow us on Instagram @STEMuntapped. If you know of a school or group of students who would like to interview female or non-binary role models do get in touch. Likewise, if you know of anyone who would be a great role model then let us know. Our details are all documented in the show notes.