Dr Ananthi Ramachandran - Biologist

In this podcast the students are going to introduce you to Dr Ananathi Ramachandran who is a biologist. Ananthi works on cancer theraputics, which are medicines which target specific cancer cells.

Ananthi recommends...
The New Scientist website and Instagram
Using YouTube to search for scientific lab skills
Searching scientific hashtags on Twitter to find scientist working on those things

STEM Untapped recommends...
The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks by Rebecca Skloot (ISBN: 9781509877027)

If you know a group of students who would like to interview female or non-binary role models, please get in touch by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Likewise, if you know anyone who would be a great role model, let us know by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

If you know a group of students who would like to interview one of our role models, please get in touch by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Likewise, if you know anyone who would be a great role model, let us know by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

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Check out our website

Transcript

Intro 00:00

Hello, and welcome to the Stem Untapped Podcast series. We're delighted that you could join us. Research from Microsoft reveals that having a role model was one of the most effective ways to prevent girls falling out of love with STEM subjects. As all partners at Untapped are female scientists, and many of our clients and associates are female scientists, we felt that we had a unique opportunity to map students with a variety of role models of their choice. This way, students can ask the questions that are most important to them, allowing them to gain access into a diverse array of different STEM careers. In this podcast, the students are going to introduce you to Dr. Ananthi Ramachandran, who is a Principal Quality Control Scientist at Achillies Therapeutics Limited. Ananthi studied microbiology at university, and she now works in cancer therapeutics, which are medicines that target specific cancer cells

Student Interviewers 00:57

What A Levels did you pick or college courses?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 01:00

Okay, so for my A Levels, I did Biology, Chemistry, Maths and Psychology. I picked those, mainly because I liked them. I guess I always liked science. And I was always interested in like medicine, so interested in helping people. And I was aiming for medicine, if I'm honest with you. But I realised that quite quickly that I wasn't going to get high enough A Levels for that to be honest. Because you need to get all A's ideally, to be a medical doctor. So I sort of go down the science route. So I those were my A Levels, and then I did biological sciences, for my degree at Leicester Uni,

Student Interviewers 01:41

You know how you went to university, and because you did a demanding and hard degree, what was like an average day in your life as a university student?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 01:48

It was tough, I'm not gonna lie, it was that. I would say I worked hard and I played hard. So I made sure that I embraced the entire university experience. So a typical day would be for, especially for a biology student, you do have a full day of lectures. So you do have a like a nine to five kind of day. It's broken down a little bit with some practical sessions. So depending on what modules you do, you have some fun, practical sessions as well. So like I did genetics, and I did microbiology, especially for my second year. So there was a lot of fun stuff playing with bacteria. We had, I remember my favourite practical was, we had different food types. So we had like a bit of rice, a bit of chicken pie. I think we had a couple of like, samples, like body samples, like urine and stuff. And we had to plate them out onto some plates, and we had to identify what bacteria was in them. So that was quite cool. So yeah, those practical sessions were about two to three hours long. Lectures, were about an hour each. We’d finish by five, and then I was ready to socialise in the evening, obviously sensibly. So I could if, especially if I had lectures on the next day, but yeah, it was good. It was a working hard and a good socialising experience as well.

Student Interviewers 03:09

Ananthi, we were wondering, if you were in our position nowadays, would you have chosen to go to university?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 03:15

I would, yes. But saying that I know, there are a lot of options at the moment, even through my work. Now I know that there are apprenticeships, which you can do. So you can do apprenticeships and work in a company for about three years. And you're still sort of linked to a university. But also I think, having that university experience… the lectures, even living away from home, having to like fend for yourself, even cook for yourself and do your own washing. I think they're quite important learning experiences. It's not just what you go and study. It's the whole experience, I would say.

Student Interviewers 03:50

You said you did Biological Sciences, you know how it's usually a male dominated subject, do you think you were treated differently as a woman doing? 

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 04:01

I would say, not that I've noticed, there's always a big thing with like the gender pay gap, that is a thing. But again, in my current work environment, my boss is female. The boss above her is female. I'm also a manager myself, very female. In fact, right, my whole department, we've got three boys out of 13. So I think we are tipping the scales on the other side at the moment. So which I love, I think girl power for the win.

Student Interviewers 04:33

As you said before, you found that university was hard, and we was wondering, did you struggle with your mental health during your time at school?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 04:41

So I had two university experiences. I was greedy. So I had my undergrad university experience, which was my Biological Sciences degree. And then I had my PhD experience. They're both very, very different. So with the undergrad, that was very lecture based, there was coursework, there was exams, very structured. Then you have your PhD, which is postgraduate, I chose to go and do that you, you don't have to do that you can stop with a bachelor's degree, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. I chose to go back to do a PhD, there is no structure there. When you're in the science field, you basically organise your own work, you plan your day, you plan your experiments, and you are basically working by yourself, for yourself on your own project that no one else is working on. So in that sense, you have your support from your supervisor and your peers around you. But yes, I would say if anything, my mental health struggled a little bit more during my PhD life, especially when things didn't work. So it's… not everything went smooth sailing, I can say that I had a six month period when none of my experiments worked. And there were there were a lot of tears, and there were a lot of tantrums from myself. So yeah, it's, it's not easy, but the support is there around you. And I think it's very important to talk about how you're feeling. There is always someone in a very similar situation. Or sometimes if you just open up a little bit, then you realise that you're not the only one feeling that way. And I think that's quite important.

Student Interviewers 06:19

Do you think all of the stress and emotional stress and everything was worth a PhD in the end,

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 06:25

I have zero regrets, it was probably my proudest day to date, graduating from that, mainly because it was quite a tough journey. So to say that, like looking back at the journey, and then just being there, wearing my silly floppy hats, at the degree ceremony was, it was a very proud moment. And also, my parents were very happy as well, like my family were very proud of me. So that was nice to see as well.

Student Interviewers 06:51

Before you went on to go to PhD, in your bio, it did say that you work in animal research first, what inspired you to do that?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 07:01

It wasn't so much an inspiration, it was more of a convenience, to be honest. So this company was based in my hometown, that I've lived in all my life, and I didn't know it was there. So they contacted me. So I put my CV, as soon as I finished my degree, put my CV out to various recruiters and I got approached about a job in that company. And it was an excellent experience, I ended up staying there for four years, I learned a lot, it was a great opportunity to put everything that I had learnt at university, to apply it to industry. So in that animal research place, it was the facility makes medication for animals, it was mainly like farm animals, so cows, horses, so the large animals. So yeah, that was, it was still nice to know that I was helping some sort of… I love animals anyway. So it was nice to know that I was helping, like my main passion was to help humans, which obviously I'm now in.

Student Interviewers 08:05

You know the transition from university to animal research, do you think it was smooth? Or do you think there's like a big difference from what you were doing in university?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 08:13

There is a big difference, mainly because in industry you are, you're in the lab more. Whereas in university it’s a bit more theoretical. So you're more likely to be in the library with your head in a textbook. And apart from in your final year, when you have like a research project to do. That's when you get your main lab experience at university. In industry is quite different. But because it's it was my first job the team were very supportive. They knew that I hadn't worked before. So they really spent some good time with me and taught me the basics, which was very helpful. So again, yes, it's between school and university there's a jump, and between university in the working world, there's a jump, but there is always that support around you, for people to help you.

Student Interviewers 08:59

After animal research and doing your PhD, do you believe that it would have been easy to find a job your biology degree?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 09:05

Yes. So I was again, I was quite lucky after my biology degree. So within three months, I had a job. So I graduated in the July, actually two months and then I had I started the job in September. So that all came quite quickly. So that was quite lucky. I would say, and my mum would definitely tell you the same thing, I got a bit too comfortable with the job and with the people I enjoyed myself a bit too much. So I ended up staying in that company for the four years. Whereas I think if I could change anything now, I would probably have left the company and gone somewhere else. Because the quickest way to learn things is I found recently is to just move around a little bit, like not obviously every month but say spend a year at company then move to another position in the same company or somewhere else, and then you get the best learning experiences. Because every company will do things differently.

Student Interviewers 10:05

You worked at two different places and maybe even more, do you think you were like treated differently as a person of colour as well as a woman in STEM? Or do you think that everyone was nice?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 10:15

So I think, if I was to really think hard, and I have a very different way of looking at, I take everybody, I treat everybody exactly the same. And I hope that people would do the same with me, regardless of my gender or my race. So with that mindset, sometimes even if there is some level of discrimination, I don't tend to spot it straightaway. Because I like to live in my little bubble, that it's not happening. I think perhaps if I sat back, and I really thought about it, I could probably point out instances where there has been some level of discrimination. But honestly, it's not been to a level where it's been noticeable, or it's affected me directly.

Student Interviewers 10:58

Ananthi do you believe that all the effort that you put in for this career was worth it?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 11:02

I do think it is it is worth it. There have been many times mainly during my PhD, where I was questioning whether the effort is worth it. So it's completely natural to feel that way and to question what you're doing. But yes to, the path that I've taken to date, I'm very happy with. I never thought that I would be in a position where… so the company that I'm working for right now, they're fairly new, so they're only about five, six years old. So I never thought I'd be in a position where I could help, like set up like a manufacturing process where the drug product is in the very early stages. And I've had a fair bit of progression in my career in the last two, three years as well, which I'm quite happy about. So I'm happy with how it's going and everything at the moment. So yes, I would completely say it's worth it, I would say it's very important to whatever you choose to do, whether it's University, or whether it's college or, or not, or any… like, if you're going straight to a job, just make sure you enjoy what you're doing. Because that is the that's the key thing, you don't necessarily need to be good at it. Because you can learn, you can always learn things, the fundamental thing is you have to enjoy it. Because then you'll be willing to learn you'll be willing to put that time in.

Student Interviewers 12:20

So if you see yourself working for the company that you work at now, for a long time?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 12:25

I think at the moment, there are a few milestones that the company wants to reach that I want to see. So I want to see it reached a certain level. But at the same time, I will always be looking at what's out there just to see what the options are. But at the moment, and I'm very happy with where I am.

Student Interviewers 12:43

Do you believe that with the work you are now do you think you're making a difference in the research?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 12:49

I would say I am. So let me explain a little bit about it for you. So I'm sure you've heard of cancer. And the treatment for cancer at the moment is chemotherapy. So chemotherapy is good, it works. But it's not able to differentiate what's good and what's bad. So it will attack the cancer cells. But it also attacks the good cells at the same time, because it doesn't know. It just goes in and just goes for everything. So for that reason, you end up with a lot of side effects. And everybody gets that same kind of treatment that chemotherapy treatment. So the company that I'm working for… So if a patient's got cancer, we take a part of their blood and part of the tumour, and we look at what cells are in the blood and the tumour. So in that tumour, there'll be good and bad cells. So we take the good cells out, we multiply them, put the good cells back into the patient, so they can then take over that tumour and attack it. So that treatment is specific for that patient. So say if myself and you are getting the same treatment, what's come out of my body can't go into you, and vice versa. So it's a personalised treatment. And then there are a lot less side effects, because it's just targeting what's necessary. In that sense, yes, I think I'm making a big difference. Unfortunately, it's not for all of the cancers, there's just a couple. So it's skin cancer and lung cancer at the minute for this for this particular company. But it's an idea of where it could go, the personalised treatment, which I think is great. The aim is to go global, all being well. And so at the moment, it's clinical trial phases at the moment, so we're still in the trial phase. But if everything passes, and everything's happy, all the regulations are all met, then hopefully fingers crossed it will be available for everyone

Student Interviewers 14:46

Could you explain what the clinical trials are?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 14:49

Okay, imagine you're like baking a cake or something. And you don't have a recipe. You found things in your cupboard you've got you've got your eggs, flour, your butter, your sugar. And then you've got all random ingredients like chocolate, banana, strawberries, kiwi fruit, maybe even salt, you know, pepper, chilli powder, you've got all sorts of random stuff. Okay? So you're gonna put that all together, and you're going to try it. And the first one might not taste so good because you've got an all sorts of eclectic mix of things that you haven't really thought about, and you've just thrown it in. Don't get me wrong, us scientists aren't that bad. But some moments I feel like we are. So you've got like a random eclectic mix. Okay. So the first one doesn't taste good. So then the second time, you're like, right, what can I do to improve it. So that's kind of like, with a drug product, that's how it is in the lab level. So you're doing very basic stuff, you're looking at it, you're not, it doesn't go anywhere near humans at this point. It's all in the lab, you're working on cells, or like a sample of a tumour or something like that. And so they're very basic experiments done in the lab, then when you're happier with that process, we can start thinking of putting it into a human. So usually, for cancer patients, one of the prerequisites is, unfortunately, they do have to have cancer, because otherwise, how would you know? So you have you have patients that are volunteers, they are willing to go through a trial with an unknown drug. So it's not something that's on the market, it's not something you can buy from a shop, you don't 100% know, if it's going to work, you don't 100% know what the side effects are. Because it's, it's brand new. So people recruit loads and loads of these people who are willing volunteers, sometimes you do get paid for it, to be honest, there are clinical trials where you can volunteer yourself to go on that trial. And they have to get as many people as they can try out the product, and see whether it works. See what the side effects are, everything is monitored very, very carefully. Because obviously, you can get into a lot of trouble with it if it goes wrong. So even before you get to that stage, it's got to be in a very, very good state, you can't, you can't just go and put anything into a human being or even an animal for that matter. So it's a very, very long process. It's not quick, it will take about two to three years minimum, I would say.

Student Interviewers 17:28

Do you think since you've done your PhD and doing all this research, do you think you're more appreciated in society and by like people around you more than before?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 17:37

Yeah, I have a lot of admiration for a lot of people in different fields. Like even that, so like the NHS and the medical fields, I have a lot of admiration for these people. I also have a lot of admiration for like other scientists, just having been through the PhD experience and knowing that not everything goes the way you want it to all the time, I think people still been able to carry on with a smile on their face and still enjoy what they're doing. I really admire that. Definitely

Student Interviewers 18:06

Working with cancer, and the ethics of that. Do you feel emotionally involved in your work in a positive or negative way?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 18:16

Yes. So I, I am very emotionally invested in my job to the point where I probably work too many hours. I don't ever stop, I don't ever do a nine to five, I work a bit too much sometimes. That's probably because it's not just myself, it's my team, and majority of the company. We all care about where this is going and what we're doing. So you're surrounded by people who all are working towards the same goal and all have that same work ethic. And they all don't mind staying a little bit longer or having an hour less sleep. I would say it's had a positive impact on me because it's nice to it's nice to have a job that you care about as well. I think that makes a big difference. Because then that motivates you to get up and come to work every day, which is nice as well.

Student Interviewers 19:07

When you was younger was that anything in your childhood that inspired you for your future aspirations?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 19:13

So when I was younger, I was quite into medicine. So I liked all the medical programmes. So there used to be a programme called Children's Hospital that I used to watch. It was a real life thing. So it wasn't like a drama or anything. It was like a documentary. And the cameras would go in to the children's hospital when you'd see all these little, unfortunately some very sick children and the doctors or nurses like treating them and I quite enjoyed watching that. There were a lot of happy endings. Unfortunately there were a few sad endings as well. But I did enjoy watching that so at that point, I would say the helping people has always kind of been in my nature. How I was going to do that, I wasn't so sure. But at year 10, I'd say year 10 or year 11 I did some work shadowing and work experience at a hospital as well, just to get a bit of an idea of what it would be like, which I thought was quite valuable. And then I enjoyed biology anyway. So that was like my favourite subject. So that's what kind of what influenced my decision. 

Student Interviewers 20:18

You was talking about doing work shadowing when you was younger, how did you go about getting that opportunity?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 20:24

So with the work experience, that was like a, that was led by my school, so that was in Year 10. And we had a week where we all had to, so the whole of the year were doing some level of work experience somewhere. So I contacted the local hospital, because that's where I wanted to, that's what I was interested in. So yeah, for the work experience, that was a little bit easier because it was led by the school. For the work shadowing, that was two days, and I shadowed a doctor in the A&E department in my local hospital. That was pretty difficult to get. I spoke to my GP, actually, strangely, and she wrote a letter to the hospital on my behalf to say that I was very interested in shadowing. And that seemed to work. But I think it's always worth contacting companies, hospitals, or anything that you're interested in, it's certainly worth reaching out. And I think now, you've got social media as well. So you can certainly make use of like Twitter, LinkedIn, those kinds of things to get you those contacts as well.

Student Interviewers 21:34

You know how you said you wanted to go into medicine. But then you weren't so sure about like, your grades? Are you happy that you taken the path that you did now? Or do you think you would have enjoyed going to like the medicine path.

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 21:45

I am happy with the path that I've taken. So when I got into Biological Sciences, there was part of me that thought once I finished that degree, if I wanted to do medicine, after that, I would move over. So you can do the three year biological sciences. And then there was the option to use that as a foundation and then apply for a medical degree. It’s still another five years. So it would have been a long time. But I had that option in my mind. But no, after I was a year into my Biological Sciences degree, and I thought no, I will stick to a biology and see where that takes me. So yeah, no regrets with not doing medicine, full of admiration for everybody who does it. But I think I'm more suited and what I'm doing now than a medical doctor.

Student Interviewers 22:32

You know, how you mentioned apprenticeships, do you think your career would have been a bit different than like, how do you think your career would have progressed if you decided to go and do an apprenticeship instead of university?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 22:42

So the advantage of an apprenticeship is that… so you're placed in a work environment. And you are, even though you're technically an apprentice, you are basically doing a job for that company. So we've got a girl working not in my department, but she's an apprentice, but she's like a lab technician basically. It's a very important role that she's doing. She has like a University Day, where she works from home for one day a week. So it's eight hours of study time. And then the other four days, she's like, physically on site in the lab at work. She's getting the benefits of working for a company being in the same environment as some, I would say fairly knowledgeable people. She's surrounded by people doing this job day in and day out. So she can ask questions, that knowledge is there. Also, I believe there are different lengths of these apprenticeships, but this particular person's apprenticeship is three years and three months. So that's a long time. So the transferable skills that you can probably get from that and you can take to a different company. Or I wouldn't be surprised if our company like offered a permanent position for her afterwards. So that that's also an option as well. So I think that it's definitely worth exploring. Another thing that I could probably mention, as well as apprenticeships there are university degrees with like an industrial placement for a year. So you've got... a usual degree is like three years, this one will be four years. So in your third year, you have a year out, and you go and work in industry, and then you come back and you complete your fourth year. So that's another one to bear in mind that that exists as well.

Student Interviewers 24:27

Growing up and even to this day, is there any female role models and that in biology that you have?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 24:34

There is a lady called Henrietta Lacks. She's a lady close to my heart because I worked with cells that came from this lady during my PhD. So basically, this lady had cancer. And she's just an ordinary lady. Actually, I don't… she wasn't a scientist. She was just an ordinary lady. She had cancer. People extracted the cancer cells from her and they basically multiplied them and froze them without her permission, without her knowing. And without any of her family knowing they… no one knew that they've done this. And those cells from this original lady are still being used in research to this day. And it's only more recently that she's getting credit for it. So those cells are called HeLa cells. So they're now named after her, because she's Henrietta Lacks, so that they're called HeLa cells. So these play a massive role in cancer research now. So I would say, because she was like, not from any research that she did. She was just being a wonderful female. Unfortunately, she got ill. But she has made a huge, huge difference in the world of research, not even for cancer research. I didn't do cancer research for my PhD, but I still use those cells for other things. So it's helping biology in so many ways, I would say.

Student Interviewers 25:59

Would you recommend any online resources for girls our age, interested to do STEM?

Dr Ananthi Ramachandran 26:04

The most underrated resource is YouTube, I would say because there are so many things, even just very basic lab techniques, or even not so basic lab techniques. If you want to learn something, a lot of them are, are on there. I find myself on YouTube a lot just figuring out what someone spoken about in a meeting about an hour ago. And I'm sitting there Googling, and I'm on YouTube. So definitely YouTube. There is also a magazine called The New Scientist. Sometimes it's a bit complicated to read, like they use a bit like heavier language, I guess. But sometimes the articles are great. So I would certainly say New Scientist magazine as well. Another option would be sometimes if you go on, I'm not sure if Twitter's that used much these days. But if you search hashtags of anything that you're interested in, in Twitter, sometimes you come up with an actual scientist working on those things, and they're quite cool to follow sometimes as well.

Outro 27:04

Thank you for joining another STEM Untapped podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, then subscribe for free on your podcast app. You can follow us on Instagram @stemuntapped. if you know of a school or group of students who would like to interview female role models to get in touch. Likewise, if you know of anyone who would be a great female or non-binary STEM role model please let us know. More details are all documented in the show notes.