Dr Megan Kenny - Lecturer in Forensic Psychology

In this episode the students are going to introduce you to Dr Megan Kenny. Megan is a lecturer at Sheffield Hallam University and she specialises in Forensic Psychology.

Megan recommends...
Silence of the Lambs film (this film is rated 18)
Silence of the Lambs by Thomas Harris (ISBN: 9780099532927)
Evil Genius television show (this show is rated 15)
Making a Murderer television show (this show is rated 15)
Forensics: The Anatomy of Crime by Val McDermid (ISBN: 9781781251706)
Parapsychology: A Beginner's Guide by Caroline Watt (ISBN: 9781780748870)
The ParaPod Podcast

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Transcript

Intro 00:00

Hello, and welcome to the Stem Untapped Podcast series. We're delighted that you could join us. Research from Microsoft reveals that having a role model was one of the most effective ways to prevent girls falling out of love with STEM subjects. As all partners at Untapped are female scientists, and many of our clients and associates are female scientists, we felt that we had a unique opportunity to map students with a variety of role models of their choice. This way, students can ask the questions that are most important to them, allowing them to gain access into a diverse array of different STEM careers. In this podcast, our students are interviewing Dr. Megan Kenny. Megan is a lecturer at Sheffield Hallam University, and she specialises in forensic psychology. Enjoy the podcast.

Dr Megan Kenny 01:00

I'm Dr. Megan Kenny, and I'm a lecturer in psychology at Sheffield Hallam University. I'm a forensic psychologist, and I've been working within the forensic sector for about 10 years. But now I'm moving more into research into parapsychology and folk lore and spiritual belief.

Student Interviewers 01:20

I'm taking Maths, Physics and Geography at higher level. And my standard levels are languages. So Chinese, French, and English. And I would like to study Math or Economics in university. So I'm also looking into the STEM subjects.

Student Interviewers 01:39

And I'm studying Psychology, History and English at higher level. And then Physics, Maths and French at standard level. And in university I wanted to either do certain things to do with law or psychology, but like the criminal side of it. I chose to interview Megan, because since I'm not sure what I want to do psychology or law, it made sense to see what it's like from the psychology side of things to see if it will convince me.

Student Interviewers 02:07

I've chose to interview Megan because me myself, I'm already very interested in psychology. And I would like to be inspired by your experience to know what I want to do for University.

Dr Megan Kenny 02:19

Okay, well, I'll do my best. 

Student Interviewers 02:21

How did you get to the point of knowing that you wanted to pursue forensic psychology?

Dr Megan Kenny 02:27

Oh, it's an interesting question. Because it's been such a long time, since I started forensic psychology, it's like a different life. So I studied psychology and law at A Level as well. And I was in the same position really where I didn't know whether to pursue law and become you know, like a barrister…be really heavily involved in criminal justice system, or whether I wanted to do more a career that were based in psychology. So I ended up choosing to do psychology with criminology at university, and that were really useful because it combines both really. You get the psychology side, but you also get to focus on criminology and the criminal aspect of things. And so when I could choose electives at university, forensic psychology was one of them. And I picked that and it was my absolute favourite module that I'd ever done at uni, I got my highest grade in it. So I thought that seemed like a good reason to continue. And so when I finished uni, when I graduated from my undergrad degree, I thought that it'd be a good idea to pursue that. And then that's when I started to work in forensic settings.

Student Interviewers 03:34

So we’d like to know, is the experience worth it?

Dr Megan Kenny 03:38

Yeah, I would say it is. So I worked in a secure unit when I graduated. And then I worked in substance misuse for a few years after that, and I've worked for community mental health, and then I worked for Rape Crisis. That were me last sort of practitioner role before I finished my PhD and started working as a lecturer. And although there were really difficult jobs at times, because you’re working with people who were going through the hardest things that they'll probably ever face, or are going through a really difficult point in their life, particularly in substance misuse. I think that doing that gave me a real opportunity to actually see the merits of psychology as a discipline because I got to put it into action. So I got to use the theory and the knowledge that I'd got from university from doing me undergrad, and then the masters and then into a PhD to actually provide support to people and give them tools to help get them out of a situation that they were very unhappy with. So in that way, I think it was worth it. And I also think that having the opportunity to see people speak, guest lecturers at University who have been involved in solving cases. I've spoken to people who worked on some quite high profile investigations and hearing their story about how they got justice for families and things, I think it's really important. So I do think it's worth it. But I think the thing to bear in mind with forensic psychology as opposed to any other branch of psychology is that you are obviously dealing with quite dark topics a lot of the time. And it's important that within that you have a really strong support network and an ability, the tools, to look after yourself in that so that you don't become burnt out and overwhelmed. 

Student Interviewers 05:25

Is the money you gain from it worth it. 

Dr Megan Kenny 05:29

No, there's nowhere near enough. But I'm sure everybody would say that. Realistically, from a financial perspective, you're going to be looking at, when you first start in sort of practitioner roles, generally, you're going to be looking at charity salaries, fixed term contracts for like a year to two years, that's what I was on. You're not looking at a massive amount of money, because obviously, the charities it's like third sector work. If you carry on and you do further study, you do masters, and then even if you do, go on and do your PhD, obviously that gives you access to higher paying jobs. But I wouldn't necessarily say that it's an avenue to pursue, if it's purely about how much money you'll make, because I think you could make as much if not more money doing something that's maybe not as dark and grisly and stressful.

Student Interviewers 06:16

If you weren't a psychology professor, like what would you do?

Dr Megan Kenny 06:20

Writing, that's what I would do, if I could make a living at it. I think that creative side is very important. Having things that are not just academic. So for you at this point, you I know you're very focused on your studies and studies, like topics that you're doing are fascinating, you know, physics, it's so interesting. But make time for play as well, it's still important to do things that you enjoy just for the sake of enjoying them. And when I was talking about things like burnout, and things being really stressful, a really good sort of coping mechanism for that is creativity. So although it's important to study and to work really hard, and get the grades that you want, that creativity and that fun is important as well.

Student Interviewers 07:00

What has been the most challenging part of your job?

Dr Megan Kenny 07:03

I tend to see it as like I've had two careers. So when I was a practitioner, the hardest part was working with people who are going through a very difficult points in life, seeing people suffering, I suppose. As a lecturer, the job that I do now, I think the hardest part is that it's a very intense job. And there's a lot of expectations in terms of managing the sort of teaching that I do day to day and also research and being innovative and coming up with new areas for research and things. So that's quite difficult. And I think personally, the hardest thing was that I did my masters and my PhD while I worked full time and I were working full time in like substance misuse and for Rape Crisis. So that were very difficult sort of balancing study, and working in quite a high intensity environment.

Student Interviewers 07:53

What is a practitioner?

Dr Megan Kenny 07:55

A practitioner is a bit of a catch all term. When I worked in mental health, I worked as part of the IAPT service, so I was a psychological wellbeing practitioner. And then when I worked in substance misuse, I was like a substance misuse practitioner. So it's just a way, it's just a sort of a generic job title.

Student Interviewers 08:11

Do you have a lot of free time like currently now?

Dr Megan Kenny 08:15

I have more than I used to have. Because obviously now I'm not studying and working full time. And I think that the lesson that I learned from that is that you have to make time for free time. So I have more free time now because I make time for it. And that's something that I always advise my students to do as well, when I'm talking to them.

Student Interviewers 08:31

Was there like a particular person who inspired you?

Dr Megan Kenny 08:35

If I'm really honest with you, the person who inspired me to become a forensic psychologist was absolutely Clarice Starling in Silence of the Lambs, I can trace it absolutely back to that and thinking that she was the most badass coolest person, that maybe one day I could work for the FBI. Although you can't do that if you've not been born in America. So she were a big inspiration for me going down the forensic path. But I think in terms of like inspiration and role models, now, I would have to say that it's the women that I work with in academia, who I think are really inspiring. Like I've got a research mentor, Professor Julia Hirst, she's amazing. And she's had a really long academic publishing career. And she's really made massive strides in the field of sex education in schools. And she's really inspirational to me. And yeah, just the women that I work with, they're all really inspiring and doing really amazing things that are not all as recognised as they should be.

Student Interviewers 09:30

How is the gender gap addressed in your field?

Dr Megan Kenny 09:33

I think when you look at psychology, in particular, and you might see this in your own classes, you do tend to get a lot of women who study psychology. And I think when I see my classes at university, there's always a lot of women but that's not necessarily reflected in an academic context in who is in getting promoted to professor, or heads of department and things. So I do think although we have a lot of women are interested in psychology, they're not necessarily getting the same career progression as the much fewer men that are going into it. So I do think there is still a gender gap. And I know it's something that universities are working harder to address, although I'm not entirely sure that it's working, without getting too pessimistic about it. Well, that's why initiatives like this is so important to encourage women and young women in particular, to see that there is a career path. There are opportunities. And it's you who are the future of psychology and all the other STEM subjects. So hopefully, as we move forward, the gender gap is much less.

Student Interviewers 10:38

Are you doing any research recently?

Dr Megan Kenny 10:40

I've just done some research with people who have been involved in false memories of satanic ritual abuse, which I'm not going to go too far into, because it's quite bleak. But that was very interesting. And now I'm doing some research into people's paranormal beliefs. So I'm interviewing people to find out what their beliefs are, and sort of what the impacts and consequences of those beliefs are. And that's been really fascinating, because now I've talked to a lot of people who have told me ghost stories and things like that. So that's what I'm doing at the minute.

Student Interviewers 11:10

In your opinion, what is the best part of teaching?

Dr Megan Kenny 11:13

Getting to work with students who are really passionate about the subject, and they’re really enthusiastic and really want to contribute to the discipline of psychology, if that's in research are when they when they graduate and go into the careers. And it's really rewarding to think that you've got a small, little tiny part in, in shaping that journey for people to go on and have really successful, hopefully successful, and fulfilling careers.

Student Interviewers 11:41

Do you have a favourite success story?

Dr Megan Kenny 11:44

I don't know, really, I suppose, I think because obviously, I'm from a working class background. So you don't see many people like me in academia. You definitely don't hear people talk like me in academia. And I know a few other colleagues who have come from similar backgrounds. But obviously, there's not as many of us in academia. So I think anyone who comes from, you know that that sort of background, and then manages to get through all the classism and sexism and racism that's inherent in academia and gets to a position is a success.

Student Interviewers 12:17

How has COVID affected your work? 

Dr Megan Kenny 12:21

It’s affected it quite a lot in terms of we went from teaching face to face in person to teaching online for a year. And now we're in a weird limbo sort of blended learning model where we're doing some online, some in person. And I think from a teaching perspective, that had a big impact. From a research perspective, I think it's actually been a massive plus, because it's encouraged everybody to do research online. And that means that you can speak to people from… in my research I've talked to people from all over the UK, but from someone from Japan, from Europe, America, it's really opened up a lot of possibilities in that way. But I do think in the day to day run of teaching, it's impacted on students, I think, in terms of their engagement, and how much they feel about their experience. There's positives and negatives to it, I would say.

Student Interviewers 13:15

Was your family supportive of the career choice you chose?

Dr Megan Kenny 13:18

Very supportive. And I think that that is really important. Although, that's not to say that if you don't have that support, that you should listen, because I think that people should really trust their gut and follow what their dreams are, whatever they are, even if that's in opposition to what people expect of you, or what people think you should do. But yeah, my family have always been really supportive, and really helped me to manage when I were working and studying and to manage all that.

Student Interviewers 13:44

Was there like a time where you wish you did something else? 

Dr Megan Kenny 13:49

I did wonder if I should have studied something else. I wondered if I should have done film study, because I'm really interested in in film analysis and horror in particular, and things like that. And then I did think that maybe I wouldn’t be able to move away from forensic psychology into anything else, because I've done it for such a long time. What I've learned from that is that rather than fixating on what I wish I'd done, I instead sort of shaped my reality to look at I want it to so I've made conscious efforts to move towards something that I'm interested in in terms of research and paranormal belief, and things like psychology can apply to so many things that can be a very flexible career choice. So if that is something that you might be concerned about, thinking do I want to make life changing decisions at this age, which is understandable, I think something like psychology does give you a lot more freedom to change and to grow as you grow through your own life experience.

Student Interviewers 14:43

Have you personally experienced any inequality due to your gender?

Dr Megan Kenny 14:48

I would say yes, although not overt. No one's ever directly, as part of my job, ever targeted me because of my gander, but I do see inequality even in my department at my institution. I think there's also a big class issue in higher education that I have witnessed and been on the receiving end of some sort of classism and classist remarks. There’s certain academics who believe there's no such thing as a working class academic. So you can’t possibly be working class and be an academic, which I suppose feeds into this narrative that either if you’re working class, you're not clever enough to go to university. Or that if you work at university, you're not allowed to be working class anymore. And I don't think that either of them things are true. So I would say, although I'm aware of inequality towards about gender inequality, and I'm sure I'm on the receiving end of it insidiously, in terms of career progression, I've never noticed it directly. But I have definitely noticed classism towards me, that's what I can say, I've experienced more directly.

Student Interviewers 15:53

Do you think learning psychology helps you in improving the real relationship with others?

Dr Megan Kenny 16:02

I do think that actually, I think that taking time to study and understand what makes us human, and also through I think studying psychology, you get a better understanding of what makes you you, you can start to apply all that learning to yourself. And I think anything that gives you an understanding of human interaction, and human nature is always going to benefit your relationships, both interpersonal relationships, professional relationships. I think it gives you more compassion towards people, because you have a bit more of an understanding about why they may be doing the things that they do. 

Student Interviewers 16:36

What would you say is like the most interesting or exciting part of your career?

Dr Megan Kenny 16:43

Research, definitely, I love research, it's my favourite thing to do. And I feel really lucky that I get to do that's part of my job now. So when I was studying, you do your dissertation. And I always really loved that bit. And that's what made me go on and do my masters and then do my PhD because I wanted to be in academia, so I could be a researcher. And so that's definitely the most exciting part, I think, getting to set up projects, and then speak to people about their experiences, even doing all the reading around it to find theory, and it's just, it's endlessly fascinating.

Student Interviewers 17:16

Would you say that your work has, not interfered, but affected your relationship?

Dr Megan Kenny 17:21

Whenever you're involved in something that's quite intense and quite stressful, it can have an impact, because there's only so much energy that you have for everything that you have to do. And so sometimes, certain things have to take a backseat when things are busy. But I always live by the sort of moto that you are always replaceable at work, but you’re never replaceable at home. So that should be what you prioritise. You can always extend a deadline, but your family and your loved ones are what matter?

Student Interviewers 17:50

How was your daily routine as a practitioner?

Dr Megan Kenny 17:53

My last practitioner role was working for Rape Crisis, which is a really vital and important charity that does not get enough funding. I acted as an independent sexual violence advocate. And also as what was known as like a wellbeing advocate. So it was a dual role. So part of my role was supporting survivors of sexual violence through the criminal justice process, so that I'd be working with people who had reported to police, and then a sort of process of gathering evidence to go into trial and start and then so as to support them through that process. And then also through the actual trial itself. Part of that would involve going on visits to for them to see the court. So that was Sheffield court normally. And being with them on the day when they had to give evidence, supporting them around that. And then the other half of the job was working with people who maybe didn't want to report to the police, or who had done so and they'd come to the end of that process. And it was around wellbeing and tools to manage trauma, things around employment support, or help accessing other services and things like that. And also just general support to talk through how they were dealing with things, how they were coping. So that was my last practitioner job. Now day to day, it varies quite a lot. It just depends. So today, for instance, I've been doing this interview, I've been catching up on sort of admin stuff around research, trying to find research grants and money that people might give me to do research. And then tomorrow, I'll be teaching all day. So I'll be working with students and delivering seminars and lectures, and I'm actually delivering my favourite lecture tomorrow, which is on occult crimes. Always a smash hit with the students! So it's quite a varied job.

Student Interviewers 19:43

Is there anything that you're working towards?

Dr Megan Kenny 19:47

I think at the moment, I'm still sort of an early career researcher. So I finished my PhD in… it was all finalised in January 2019. So I've not been necessarily like a doctor for a very long time. So my goal at the minute is about establishing my research profile, and publishing papers and things like that. Because long term that'll mean that hopefully I'll get more grant money, which gives me more money to do research.

Student Interviewers 20:17

Have you got any recommendations like books, podcasts, TV shows, films, for anybody that wants to like pursue psychology?

Dr Megan Kenny 20:26

Yeah, I think for forensic psychology in particular, there's quite a few interesting documentaries. Although I wouldn't necessarily say that, the I wouldn't use them as a reference in an essay, shall we say? But definitely things like Evil Genius on Netflix. Making a Murderer is a good one to understand sort of the flaws in the criminal justice system and it’s based in America, but to get an idea about miscarriages of justice, which is something very important for us to think about as forensic psychologists. In terms of books, Val McDermid wrote a book called Forensics and that talks about crime scene investigation and what forensic science is all about in the context of crime. In terms of parasitology I would say the book by Caroline Wyatt (I think her name is). She wrote a very good introduction to the topic. There's loads and loads of podcasts about Parapsychology, there's a lot of ones about cryptids. Parapod is an award winning one, and I was interviewed for that podcast as well. So a little plug for me there.

Outro 21:26

Thank you for joining another Stem Untapped podcast. If you know of a school or group of students that would like to interview female STEM role models to get in touch. Likewise, if you know of anyone who would be a great female STEM role model, please do let us know. Our details are all documented in the show notes.